Israel cannot be arbiter of conversions to Judaism   (28/05/2008)

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Cardiac Jews
If I feel that I am a doctor does that make me one? If I feel that I am French, am I? Should multiple groups be able to decide on the entry rules to Harvard, because it is elitist and exclusionary? In the scheme of Jewish history the "multiple groups" of today are relatively new, why should they be able to come along and change the rules? Conversely, groups in the past that did not follow the halacha faded away. Genuine converts are welcome, but conversion is not a free for all. The element of divisiveness comes from the "multiple group" who wish to change the rules, not from those wishing to keep our tradition of thousands of years.
Aviva, Israel, Nov 26 2008 9:45:00:000PM

Not Cossack Mentality. Simple Honesty.
Joe Jew, first of all, halacha doesn’t allow annulment of a sincere conversion. Knowing this, the corrupt haredi run rabbinical court chose a different strategy – they put thousands of conversions in Doubt. The effect of this action is devastating and similar to annulment for all practical purposes. This cowardly, but very effective strategy needs to be recognized. This “I Doubt => You Prove your Innocence” Stalinist method will gain momentum and cause irreparable damage to Jewish people, if these black garbed Bolsheviks are not stopped soon. Next they will cast a "Doubt" on all secular Jews, stating that they might be mamzerim, and on all divorces that are not done by the court of your liking (tel aviv one for example) and so on. And since there is no way to prove that something didn`t happen (see second mishna in Makkos) the doubt will stick. There is no end to this “presumption of guilt” madness.
Ben, USA, Jul 22 2008 11:52:00:000PM

cossack mentality- thief shouting at victim
Ben , accusing the Haredi Rabbis of corruption, for stopping corrupt, immoral fake conversions is the depth of distortion. the facts are that someone incompetent was caught having signed and rubber-stamped fake conversions. He was accused by Rabbis in Europe of forgery and perjury. he was not qualified to sit on a Beit Din, in the first place. Politicians pushed him into the position. And you have the unmitigated gall to call protesting this "corruption"
Joe Jew, Jerusalem, Jun 4 2008 1:34:00:000PM

"Multiply Observant" Confuses Judaism w/ s/t else
Two things. (1) In the talkback "Charedi confuse observance with faith" above, the poster unwittingly puts forward the same canard that Christianity has made against Judaism for a millenia - it is overly legalistic, whereas the heart is all that is truly important. Note the keywords "faith," "law[-giver]," and the ultimate baseline of religious success, "pious" (piety). In truth, Judaism has always `put its money where its mouth is,` equating *actions* with "love" and a whole lot more (see M. Satlow "Jewish Knowing: Monism and its Ramifications,” Judaism 45:4 (1996)). Jon D. Levenson puts it well when he says "Covenant-love is mutual...It is not a question of law *or* love, but law conceived in love, love expressed as law. The two are a unity." (Sinai and Zion, p. 77). Get your head out of Medieval Christian Europe! (2) Furthermore, observance because of satisfaction or admiration for a community is a completely acceptable expression of Jewish commitment - one does not have to be a contemplative Hasid or philosophical Maskil nor an ethicist of a Mitnaged . [Although the Rebbe and the Rambam and the Novardoker will all disagree, but then, they might then each condemn each other too!] The poster confuses lack of conviction in God and mitzvot with *suppression *of people who do not want to be there, like the few outlets the Haredi community presently has for men who are not good Talmudists. Someone who does not believe in a personal God (for argument`s sake, let`s call it `hashgacha pratit`) but feels halakhic Judaism has got something going for it and wishes to be a part of that community is a ma`amin by another name - it is semantics.
Amitai, Israel, Jun 4 2008 11:13:00:000AM

Haredi Corruption
Wholesale annulment of conversions recently performed by Haredi establishment is immoral. It is also agains direct Torah instruction to take care of gerim and never reminding them that they were not always Jewish. One would expect secularist prime minister like Olmert to take side of the abused converts, but he is corrupt and takes side of Haredi abusers. How sad. G-d please help us.
Ben, USA, Jun 4 2008 4:49:00:000AM

Ignorant statements
"The goal of the ultra-Orthodox extends beyond influencing the conversion process. Ultra-Orthodoxy believes the survival of the Jewish people will depend on a pure, pious remnant. Not only do they have almost no outreach..." The vast majority of kiruv (Jewish outreach) is done by the "Ultra-Orthodox" community. (ie. Aish HaTorah, Ohr Somayach, Neve Yerushalayim, Shearim, EYAHT, NCSY, Machon Yaakov, Machon Shlomo, Gateways, Acheinu, and that`s not to mention Chabad-Lubavich who is at the forefront of outreach in America and the former USSR aswell as in Israel.
Akiva Goldberg, Canada, Jun 3 2008 6:48:00:000PM

Israel doesn`t nned more Jews for Jesus
How can we say we are worried about the Arabs taking over the Jewish State if we are goingto let Jewish Christians do it instead? There is allot to be learned from the Hanukah story, the only true resolution to assimilation.
Rafi, US,Israel, Jun 3 2008 5:45:00:000PM

Only Ultra Orthodox
As a convert, I wanted to join the serious Jewish people. Avraham Avinu. Moshe Rabbeinu. Dovid haMelech. The Grau. And so on. I didn`t want any half-way, sort of, compromised conversion. Look. My conversion has to last for millions, billions of years in Shamayim. Yes, next to the Sh`china. Forever. Why offer me a watered-down second-best questionable conversion? Do you really think being Jewish is of such marginal importance to me? Certainly not.
Avraham Ben Avraham, Israel, Jun 2 2008 9:46:00:000PM

To YM
No-one is challenging sincere converts like yourself. As a hareidi rav who has been involved with many conversions, I doubt if any competent beit din would challenge a convert fitting the way you describe yourself, least of all for the reasons you describe. i happen to be familiar with most Haredi and non-hareidi Batei Din, especially those with proven competence in this field. The real issue is those who fake conversions and those who rubber-stamp those conversions, usually for large sums of money.These Frauds and those who turn a blind eye to their antics, do the genuine convert a dis-service. The pain you feel that emerges between the lines of your reply, will not remain unavenged. The Heavenly Court will demand a full accou nting of this pain from the incompetents and the frauds.
Rabbi, Jerusalem, Jun 2 2008 9:43:00:000PM

religious Zionism,s absence
Religious Zionism is absent because they cannot train competent Dayannim. Even those Dayyannim of their own camp such as Rav Mordechai Eliyahu (lerefuah Sheleima) or Rav Avraham Shapira (zt"l) were chareidi trained. Not to mention the writer of this article. Rav Druckmasn never bothered to build any consensus. Quite the contrary- Every Rav in Europe is furious with him, and with good reason. Not to mention that the camp he represents succeeded in shrinking from being the spearhead of 70% of Israelis to representing 3% in a mere twenty years. Please do not confuse politics with Halacha. There are very few points that the two meet.
Rabbi, Jerusalem, Jun 2 2008 8:11:00:000PM

Religious Zionism`s absence
Religious Zionism`s absence is because of an alliance between the Hareidi and secular politicians to throw them out of the Rabbinate. The secular politicians pushed through the election of Hareidi Chief Rabbis and hareidi dayanim. There is a lot less the marginalized religious zionist community can do about any of these issues. Rav Druckman - a religious zionist - is at the center of the current conversion controversy. It is he that was attacked, stripped of authority, and rendered helpless to deal with the issue by hareidi rabbis elevated to the dayanut by a hareidi - secular coalition. The religious zionist community is by no means a single issue community. Your charge is cheap slander. The holiness of the Land of Israel is an important element in Judaism -- if not, why bother building a jewish society here. There are legitimate concerns about returning territories which have nothing to do with a religious outlook, these concerns are continually treated with amazing disregard. We do live in a very dangerous corner of a dangerous world. It is because many (but not all) in the religous zionist community called attention to the very well-grounded religious and security issues mentioned above that they have been-villified and isolated by a coalition seeking an unacheivable utopia -- peace with the Arabs. This single vision, the utopia of peace, is what drives secular politicians to hand over the rabbinate to the hareidim and to boot out Rabbi Druckman -- a man who actually tried to built a wide-spread consensus on the conversion issue. When the hareidi dayanim were elected, did you support the religious zionist candidates?
Yosef, Israel, Jun 2 2008 1:50:00:000PM

Even if you`re right
Even if you are right, and we let any Tom, Dick or Harry perform a conversion, the schism in Judaism will nonetheless be great. There will end up being two nations (at least). The Torah SheBalPeh is an unbroken chain of transmission and analysis. Those, such as yourself, who are uninformed mistakenly "believe" that the Torah is subject to whimsical interperetation. It is not. Who is more intellecually honest - the one who follows the halacha even if it is "inconvenient" or the one who bends the halacha when it makes him feel good? Halacha is objective and based on Torah SheBalPeh.
Jeff, USA, Jun 2 2008 6:07:00:000AM

Question is not observance or not observance
The question for me, as a convert, is not observance or not observance. Someone who converts should accept the mitzwot. The question is who defines the mitzwot. There are streams that add a special prayer on yom ha atzmaut, there are streams who oppose it. As a Jew I am free to choose my rabbi and my stream within the orthodoxy. My problem is, how am I supposed to react if one stream, e.g. the one opposing the army and the medina, declares that it a `real Jew` should not go to army. And would decide to declare me non Jewish because I send my children to army, because I raise the Israeli flag, because I believe the medina is a step on the way to redemption. It is hard for me to continue building up a life in a country, which may declare me and my children non-Jewish if I stay loyal to my rabbi, in case another stream gains strength in the rabbanut. Maybe I misunderstood the facts, but this is how a normal convert feels about this whole issue. I understood that nobody asks if I keep the mitzwot, if one stream doesnt like a rabbi ALL conversions done by him are declared invalid, even of those converts who keep mitzwot. I would hope for some support from the government so not one day neturei carta gains strength and declares me non-Jewish.
YM, Israel, Jun 1 2008 3:01:00:000PM

conversion
One would think that since most laws and stories are repeated twice in the 5 Books of Moses that if God wanted people to convert to Judaism he would have outlined a procedure. What the 5 Books of Moses do say, however, is that anyone who wants to live amongst the Children of Israel can do so, but it does not say that they become "Jewish". It further says that if a person marries a Jew then ONLY after 4 generations would their outspring be considered "Jewish" (i.e. one of the Children of Israel. The way the rabbinal authorites, from all three major groups, have misinterpreted the law so that a person can memorize a few customs and laws and live a kosher lifestyle for a year or so until he is "converted". If a person goes to Japan memorizes Japenese laws and customs and begins to live a Japanese lifestyle: Does that make him Japanese? Finally, this whole thing about Ruth being the 1st convert to Judaism is total nonesense. Nowhere in the Book of Ruth is she ever refered to as a Jew or a convert. Throughout she is referred to as: "Naomi`s daughter in law". Even after he marraige to Boaz she is still not referred to as a Jew and when she gives birth the child is described to as belonging to Naomi. Ruth was not a convert.She was a Moabite married to a Jew and she died a Moabite married to a Jew.
Dror Ben Ami, Israel, Jun 1 2008 9:50:00:000AM

Charedi confuse observance with faith
If one is truly possessed of faith in G-d, then one acts in accordance with that faith. The Jewish picture of G-d is not only one of law-giver, but of loving father and compassionate healer of all His creation if only they will let Him in. I see so often people fall prey to the idea that it can be simplified to a computer program like simplicity and as long as one is seen behaving and doing "the right things" that it means one is pious. Yet many show no concern and love for anything but slavishly following their interpretation of halacha no matter what the cost to the hearts and souls of their fellows. It is possibly to be as strictly observant as them and yet not truly believe in G-d, but only observe out of a desire to belong to the community and not be ostracized, make waves, etc. The result is a hollow sham that makes the lack of G-d in the world and the need for us to embrace Him fully ever clearer. The result is this whole fiasco.
Multiply Observant, USA, May 31 2008 9:11:00:000PM

3rd try Yidishkeit
I am not a Jew because I am the child of a Jewish father and mother...I am a Jew because I choose to be not because of an accident of birth. I recognize the debt all Jews have to the ultraorthodox whose fanaticism through centuries of discrimination and terror kept our faith alive...without them we would be a footnote in the annals of history. But it is time to move on...the road to God has many paths and goes in many directions, yet it arrives to the same place for those who believe in the broad philosophy of Judaism. I don`t keep kosher, I don`t observe all the tenets of the Sabbath and certainly many of the orthodox persuasion would call me a goy. But they have no idea of what is in my heart and in my deeds. The State of Israel exists and survives because of the will, support and sacrifice of Jews of every persuasion as well as non Jews who recognize the contribution of the jewish people. You are a Jew if you say you are, if you adopt Jewish values and if you try to live a rightious life. Let the ultraorthodx practice as they believe among their own community and otherwise sleep until, and hopefully it never will, when the urgent call comes forth as related in Joel IV: "Wake up the mighty men, prepare for war."
Gerald Briskin, USA, May 30 2008 3:48:00:000PM

Wakeup Call
Firing Rav Druckman IS a wake-up call: To Rabbis of his camp: do not let the secular Zionist "leadership" push you into positions where you cease to be an asset and become a liability. Look At what happened to Rabbis Goren And Kook. Fron effective outreach positions to sidelined in positions where they were humiliated. Secular Zionists Love kicking rabbis upstairs when they cannot kick below the belt.
jewboy, Jerusalem, May 29 2008 11:19:00:000PM

Halacha isn`t political
Maybe we ought to "matir" the eating of Pork so as to accomodate the non-jews from the USSR who want to indentify with our people. The way to show your identification with the Jewish People is to accept the yoke of the Mitzvos.
Jay, USA, May 29 2008 10:19:00:000PM

Supporting Each Other or Fighting Each Other
Thank you Rabbi for this column. It is a fact that the Jewish Community within and without Israel is composed of many variants of religious and non-religious practice. We can either accomodate and respect each other for mutual benefit, or reject and fight each other for mutal harm. Sadly too many choose the latter approach.
Lloyd, Canada, May 29 2008 8:33:00:000PM

Ultraorthodox outreach, Chabad style
1991 - chabad adherents start the only antisemitic race riots in the history of the USA after an accident which resulted in the death of a black child. 2008 - The largest raid in the history of the USA to arrest illegal aliens takes place at chabad owned and run Agriprocessors, the largest kosher slaughterhouse in the world. 2008 - Race riots about to errupt in crown heights after chabad ruffians beat up a black youth. That kind of outreach we can do without, thanks!
B. Sagdiev, South Africa, May 29 2008 11:35:00:000AM

multiple Rabbinates
Multiple Rabbinates are only feasible if you have qualified personnel. As few qualified Dayyanim emerge from the circles outside the Haredi world. and none at all from outside the Torani world which is actually taught mostly by those trained by Haredim, Multiple rabbinates only means an effective Haredi monopoly. Which happens to be the status Quo you are objecting to so vociferously.
Just a Jew, Jerusalem, May 29 2008 11:16:00:000AM

Ridiculous
There is so much wrong with your attitude that it is hard to find anything to agree with. Fake conversions are fake. Using politics as a substitute for Judaism, the "zionism" you refer to, is an obsolete concept that almost no Israeli believes in. The only real outreach is Hareidi, in Israel and worldwide. Religious Zionism went from being the spearhead of 70% of Israelis to representing only 3% in the last thirty years, at least in ideological- political terms.
Rabbi, Jerusalem, May 29 2008 11:10:00:000AM

Outreach
It is disingenuous, if not downright false, to assert that the ultra-Orthodox engage in almost no outreach. Much of the outreach work done within the Jewish community in Israel is spearheaded by chareidim. It is true that they are interested in quality, not quantity, as they concerned chiefly with Judaism as a religion and not as a nationalist movement. Outreach for the sake of increasing your numbers is also known as proselytization.
Daniel, USA, May 28 2008 9:28:00:000PM

Power !!
Under the guise of religious observance, the ultra-orthodox realistically are demanding the power to run Israel. Judaism per se is not the question. The right to force their POV upon all Israelis is their aim. Piety is the sham being used as a tool. It is no different than the hatred thrown about when the attacks upon the secular fail to agree with their demands or for that matter when the state of Israel came into being over the objections of those who claimed that the Moshiach should brought Israel into the world.
Ben, USA, May 28 2008 6:14:00:000PM

interests
I realize this is the middle east, but I don`t think there is another country with so many groups working so hard against their own self interests.
Aryeh Shore, Israel, May 28 2008 5:18:00:000PM

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